ILA Podcast

The Both/And Reality

Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders

with Dr. Chuck Palus & John McGuire


Dr. Chuck Palus & John McGuire discusses their work at the Center for Creative Leadership developing leaders and vertically transforming leadership cultures.

A Quote From This Episode

“It’s this underlying yin-yang idea of balance of things that seem very different, but they’re, in fact, a unity. And that’s what we want to emphasize.”

About Dr. Chuck Palus

Charles J. (Chuck) Palus, Ph.D., is an Honorary Senior Fellow at the Center for Creative Leadership (retired 2020). He studies, teaches, and develops leadership as a relational process within the context of the vertical transformation of leadership cultures.  He is co-founder of CCL Labs, a community-based innovation laboratory with a line of products including Visual Explorer™, Leadership Essentials™, Transformations™, and the Early Leadership Toolkit™. He is co-author of the award-winning book The Leader’s Edge; and the papers: “Making Common Sense: Leadership as Meaning-Making in a Community of Practice,” and “Evolving Leaders.” His work appears in Leadership Quarterly, Harvard Business Review, the Harvard Business School Handbook for Teaching Leadership, the CCL Handbook of Leadership Development, the Handbook of Action Research, and the Change Handbook.

About John McGuire

John McGuire,  Principal of the McGuire Consultant Group, an Honorary Senior Fellow at the Center for Creative Leadership, co-founder and practice leader of CCL’s Organizational Leadership Transformation practice, and an Action Inquiry Associate charter member.  He specializes in Vertical Leadership Culture as the core mechanism in his change leadership methodology for transforming executives, their teams, and organizations.  As an action-research practitioner, speaker, and author, John’s innovation essentially reforms traditional change methods to be consciously driven toward senior leadership’s culture, developing interdependent beliefs and practices. Since 2006 his publications comprise the book Transforming Your Leadership Culture, and articles in Leadership Quarterly, Forbes, and the Washington Post. John has assisted organizations across market sectors in transforming toward Interdependent Leadership Cultures and previously practiced vertical transformation through senior business management positions across industries.  He holds master’s degrees from Harvard and Brandeis Universities.

Host Scott J. Allen

Scott Allen

Scott J. Allen, Ph.D., is the Standard Products—Dr. James S. Reid Chair in Management at John Carroll University. He is an associate professor and teaches courses in leadership, management skills, and executive communication. He is also a communications coach, consultant, author, podcast host, and entrepreneur. For almost two decades, he’s worked with clients to improve their leadership and communication skills. Learn more about Scott here.

About Phronesis

Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders offers a smart, fast-paced discussion on all things leadership. Scott and his expert guests cover timely, relevant topics and incorporate practical tips designed to help you make a difference in how you lead and live.